Is there a hidden agenda against our club?

[bluephysio]

I would be gratefull is any referee ,linesman or any norfolk FA official would spare their time and give an honest and representative view on my thread which i am now going to try and convey. I will firstly say that i am no budding Einstein ,i am not a particularly big time Charlie and i am certainly not in the game of sounding off without good reason when results go against Wroxham FC so all i ask is that all you officials in your FA ivory tower give a humble ordinary working person an honest reply. Thank you.
Now i will begin- I have now been involved with adult football now for over 27 years and during that time i have been invoved with many clubs, winning one or two trophys and had the pleasure of winning the Sterry club twice ,once as a player and once as part of a backroom staff so i like to think i know a little about the game and particularly the Anglian Comb. My next statement is also that although during my playing days i too always had my views on how a referee was performing and probably , like todays players , gave him a very agricultural explanation on his decisions but i must say it seemed that they didnt hide behind an iron-fisted FA regime in those days and refuse to use not only their own deduction of a situation but implement the over-zealous use of their coloured cards. I mean that they would treat you like an adult ,tell you that at the end of the day they were in charge of the game and tell you to button it and some even done it with a smile on their faces would you believe!! Now days the FA seem to churn out characterless automatons who think refereeing consists of alienating themselves from every player ,fan and official from a club. This to me seems like a road to disaster and is driving the real pleasure from what at the end of the day is just a bunch of lads kicking a bag of wind around a field ,it is not rocket science so why take it so seriously my friends in black?! What really struck this point home to me today was after our defeat to Cromer. This led to the falling out of a complete changing room of very intelligent, well mannered and socially polite lads getting at each others throats with real venom due mainly in the whole to some questionanable refereeing decisions (i am trying to stay polite and focused) and a sending off of a very honest player who had the temerity to ask the refferee if he was really sure on his choice-making. Now i will repeat i am NOT a bleating, bleeding heart trying to cover Wroxham FC's bad results far from it as i have my two penneth worth when the lads under acheive but i do feel that we do now seem to be the victims to officials who perceive that we are all big headed ,big time Charlies who need to be knocked down a peg or two and for some reason or other ,only known to themselves, they feel they are the men to do it. Now this is fine if there is a real offence on the field of play committed and of course the appropriate card should be brandished but for heavens sake not the on the poor lads first trivial misdemeanor!!! This is driving a real wedge between clubs and referees as it is blatantly obvious that we are in the middle of an economic resession and the last thing we need is some kind of man-in-black waiving round coloured cards like the christmas grinch looking like he is getting sponsored on his booking rate!! Surely you do not have to be the chancellor of the exchequer to realise that for some of these lads playing football it is their only escape from a week of worrying about money, paying mortgages and their families and to loose any amount to what i deem as an innocuous offence would raise the hackles on mother Threasa not to mention the real fact that it might take someone from the club staff ,with the persuasive skills of a saint , weeks to extracate the money from these so-called "guilty parties" . I have got to say in my opinion that if this trend continues it will start to really bite into the whole fabric of lower level football as all clubs are struggling to consolidate debts (not only for players wages as some of you wise guys might instantly think) but on simple utilitys such as electricity, heating etc and funnily enough YOU REFEREES EXPENSES so please stop biting the hand that feeds you and give a thought your very own respect campaign motto "without us there is no game" well my friends this definately cuts both ways.
Thank you for reading this and i really look forward to reading your comments.

[mristhereanyonehehasntbooked]

no hidden agenda, bluephysio - just a completely incompetent ref!

[pm]

the ref today on this showing could have a big say on the destination of the sterry cup this year, today wroxham lost to an avarage cromer side who were second best until a certain man completely lost the plot in the second half and i doubt he will sleep well tonight.if the ref had performed like this in the premiership they would suspend him! wonder what the assessor thought? bet i could guess!!!!!!! ;D ;D
credit to cromer who took full advantage of this situation and must have thought christmas had came early.

[maninblack]

bluephysio you always seem to have a lot to say about referees especially when you lose. Why dont you give it a go and show us all how it is done!

[bluephysio]

Nov 7, 2009 22:48:57 GMT 1 @maninblack said:

bluephysio you always seem to have a lot to say about referees especially when you lose. Why dont you give it a go and show us all how it is done!

Your statement is idicative of your whole afffilation. I asked for a constructive arguement to support a referees actions and all you do is hide behind a statement that a five year old could come out with. I can only reiterate the sentiments that i tried to convey earlier about the state of mind of some of the referees when going into a match and sadly through your empty ,meaningless statement you have cemented the very fact i was trying to thrash out. If you failed to grasp the theme i was getting at you would and should ,have read that i have respect for the officials ,not only as stewards of the game but as human beings and as so always give them the benefit of the doubt in the mistakes they make as we are all human but im sorry but referees these days do not use their own personel judgement in situations and as a result loose their human approach in dealing with players and this is the very aspect that is worrying me as i can only see it getting worse which will NOT benefit players or officials. I thank you for at least taking time to reply and i would appreciate another reply if you are an official as you seem to imply and let me know if you are being press-ganged by the FA into cash collecting. I am not looking to just cause friction but to try and see if there is any room in the future to change everyones thinking before this lovely,simple game of ours is ruined which, in my humble opinion, it is. And sorry i have never felt the urge to be a ref but still appreciate the time,trouble and expense that it took to gain their qualifications but please appreciate it took me longer to gain the qualifications i have and im 1000% sure a lot more money!!

[kirkleyman]

There is one way and that is through the marking system and sending in a report on the refs performance but please do it before some of these officials i have read about today on the ang comb sites make progression to the ridgeons league

[Neutral]

Its the fees the three match officials demand which make me angry! Nearly £40 each in some instances - talk about taking the preverbial!

[EXREF]

With regards to the fees, that is not the fault of the match officials, they may all come from different corners of the county.
As for one game where the referee "may have cost you the sterry cup" that is unfair, the season is over 30 odd games, drawing with St andrews and teams like that may lose you the league.
Dissent, all refs have there own views of dissent, if its nasty, personel, and the use of foul language towards him, then that has to be taken into account. A ref may be crap, he may well know he is having a stinker, he do not need to be told, by a player, how many times was the "word in your ear" done, at the end of the day a referee has an unbiased view of the game, he really don't care how wins, and if he follows the law to the letter then you can't slaughter him for it.
Its all about opinions and everyone sees it differantly, how many times do you see it on the TV the 10th view of the penalty, yet the ref only see it once. remember its about angles.
Im sure this ref had a off day, the keeper dropping one in the net, thats an off day??, the striker who misses an open goal, you don't shout and abuse him, you encourage, a good ref will know if he made a mistake.
Talk to refs after the game, that may help, and see things from a neutral point of view.
But if he is that that bad, there are correct channels to go down.
All teams will moan about officials, but if they don't turn up, then you really would moan.
Referees don't go looking for trouble, trouble will find them, but it is unfair to say you may lose the sterry cup because of one game.

[Tom]

EXREF

Have you ever tried talking to Steve Artis? Your not allowed, not matter how polite. Its refs like these that need to play their part of Respect.

Its not all one sided!

[bluephysio]

Thanks EXREF at least you have come on here and given some constructive dialogue and not told everyone to become a ref themselves!! I do believe tho that the ref i am refering to that we had on Sat was put under unnnessary pressure by being assessed from the sidelines.I totally understand that referees have to be watched to observe their performance but is there no way this could be done a bit more discreetly? And with regard to comments regarding the result costing us the Sterry cup i still think it could be a major point in our season as Cromer will be in the mix come May and that 3 points could be the difference as its games against your real title contenders that seem to determine in the Anglian Comb where the Sterry cup ends up.

[EXREF]

I must admit that I did watch the game with Matishall recently, and I don't remember any bookings for dissent, and Mattishall are a very difficult team to referee.

[scatty]

The length of your post, Blue Physio, portrays a passionate plea to some comment from the refereeing fraternity and I also note on the un-official Shannock website, there is current exasperation with some refereeing performances on the AC Premier. Ex-ref has already replied and I too as a current and active referee am happy to comment in a hopefully constructive and fair way.
Firstly, Referees expenses: We have no say over this. In the Ang Comb, it actually your club that assists in deciding this at the AGM. The League Management committee will make a recommended rate to the clubs, who will then vote on it. If you are not happy at what has been recommended at what is paid, then use your vote at the AGM......its no good complaining after the event.....that's democracy!
I fully understand your frustrations at what you deem pointless and silly yellow and red cards.i.e a player who walks off the pitch to get a drink on a hot day...that is a mandatory yellow card....seems very harsh from the out set.........but if another player does it and then another.....and then they come back on when they feel like it. Chaos reigns and no-one knows how many are on the pitch! Put in another context, I would consider simply bad-mannered and discourteous, when all the player had to do was ask me!
I, like you, was a player at Senior level in my playing days and I too "thought" I knew "what was what" and could do a much better job that some of the "numpties" who were refereeing my games but when taking the refereeing course,alas, I actually knew only about 70% of the Laws of football correctly. I would urge you to take a refereeing course, it would help your understanding. The Laws, even the seemingly pointless ones, are there for a reason and doing the course would help you understand why and then hopefully you will understand more why certain decisions and actions have to be taken.
As a player, I knew what I could get away with with certain referees and now I have gone from "poacher to gamekeeper" I have realized that it is an endemic culture with players to push the boundaries of the laws of the game to see what they can get away with in the pursuit of winning the game. If a law is broken and a player gets away with it, then that is acceptable to the winning team. Please be reminded that it is nearly always the referee who gets the blame for this, even if he hasn't seen the cheating. E.g No Irish player ran upto Thierry Henry and berated him immeadiately after his blatent handball, they all went to the referee. Without TV cameras all around Trafford Park, I suggest it unlikely a player from home or away would own up to a deliberate handball to score a goal until AFTER the game has finished and the result had been cannot be changed. Simply put, if players understand properly the Laws of the Game and stay within those boundaries, then the ref has nothing to do. Push the boundaries to the limits and your risk of getting in trouble increases...its seems pretty easy to understand to me but the player culture ignores it in the pursuit of winning.
With regard to "talking to referees", we are human and, like it or not, we are all different. In your long career in the local game, Blue Physio, no doubt there are colleagues who you have got on really well with and those with whom you have not got on with, who may be rude and obnoxius. Well, its the same in the refereeing fraternity so it is inevitable that will you come across some like that who do not want to talk to you and discuss the game...that my friend, is human beings...I referee players who are rude and obnoxious....its a fact of life!!!! If a referee crosses a boundary of sociability, then there is a system in place for you to report that referee to the league......an investigation would take place and the powers-that-be will agree or disagree with you.
As an official on the touchline, you are not party to many of the conversations that go on between referee and player during the game, so it is hard for you to understand when players are sometimes booked for a softly/spoken yet abusive/disrespectful comment toward a referee. And I know from personal experience, players aren't always honest to their OWN club officials if they can make it look they have been harshly done by rather than fully deserved.
If a player talks to me politely about a decision I've made, I would show him respect and ALWAYS give an answer but he should also respect and accept that it may be an answer he disagrees with and does not want to hear.....the game moves on quickly and it is not the time to debate. I am the person who has to make that call so the match can continue. Never forget when football first started in the late 1800s, there were no referees, teams had to mutually agree decisions. Referees were introduced beacause teams wouldn't agree on a decision and refused to carry on....games weren't finished!!
I put a lot of value in not WHAT a player asks me, but HOW he asks me..too often a player/official will SHOUT AGGRESSIVELY but sees that as talking a referee. That once again is pushing the boundaries of the laws i.e.dissent, they have increased their risk of getting trouble, yet I receive a incredulous look from the player when I show him a card.
I think most referees would be offended by the title of your original post as that implies bias against your club. With so many years in the game, you should know by now that calling a referee "biased" or "a cheat" is one comment that a referee would have no hesitation in taking strong action against the perpetrator but I accept your title as a plea for an answer. I fully accept there are bad referees out there who by their actions let down the clubs, their refereeing colleagues and the game of football. There are also referees who perform badly, and in the AC Prem referees get marked by assessors AND clubs and there is, in essence, a league table for those marks....and like your league, those teams and referees at the bottom of the table at the moment had better improve their performance or they may be relegated down to the next level.
Unfortunately, it has been an endemic culture at ALL levels of football for years and years to blame the referee so its not the players fault. My dad used to moan about the referee when he played, I used to moan about the referee when I played and unless there is a sea-change of this culture (and this is what the Respect programme is trying to do in youth football), I dare say my 6-year old son will moan abouth the referee if he starts playing football.
Perhaps I should have taken up rugby refereeing where the culture and respect for officials is totally different but like you, Blue Physio, and virtually all my refereeing colleagues, i love football too much.
I could carry on this post for ages but maybe if our paths cross at a football match, I would certainly carry on this conversation in the bar - good luck for the rest of the season!!

[bluephysio]

Thank you scatty for taking the time and trouble to put forward your very honest and constructive post . I totally agree the failings of human nature ie. Disrespectfull and aggresive berating of officials is not to be condoned by anyone and it is good to hear such a accurate view of a referee . I also read with interest your comments on there being some refs that could be deemed as being short of both the character and quality to be ACL refs- this is point i can appreciate and it may have just been that we had that one below par official that day.Hopefully this was the case and my faith can slowly be restored in the men in black as the last thing i want to be known as is a referee "basher"!!! Thanks again for your input and please feel free to input some more of your views on this site as it can only nuture more understanding between all parties concerned and yes please feel free to express your views to me in more depth in our bar but can i just add i listen better when someone else buys the drinks!!!!!!!!!

[lowerstoft lenny]

how sweet it is that the two of you have now bonded , my advice look after refs because god knows its bad enough when you have home linesmen. well done scatty must be some sort of record that mate, did not have time to read it all but still got the jist, bluephysio could you and fat barry out of eastenders give caroline a hand with the sausages this weekend as i cant make it , but will be over for a game soon .

[local fan]

the managerment team are to blame for the poor start to the season we have many of the players we have had for the past few years , the football is rubbish and i would rather watch a team that tries to play and fails then a team that is boring , get rid of batch and bring someone in who cares about the club , please both physios dont reply because i pay to watch and am due my view , no disrespect but its my view , thankyou, pauling,carus and lemmon have the club at heart .